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Chapter 14 - page 34

August 2nd, 2011, 7:06 pm

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User's Comments

Star Seraph, August 2nd, 2011, 7:14 pm

all i can imagine is Cat going in for the kiss with some random cheesy line like "Yeah, you have some right here" -kiss-

Ioulianna, August 2nd, 2011, 7:25 pm

I SENSE IMPENDING 'OOOOOOOOOOOHH!' MOMENT. :D

Sopek, August 2nd, 2011, 8:19 pm

KISS HER! KISS HER NOW!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 2nd, 2011, 8:25 pm

Trying to think of a lot of honey-themed songs...
I hope the thought of something sweeter than the honey would cross Callista's mind before Cat tries anything, in the very least that she hasn't forgotten how interested he really is... I'd like a couple to be on the same page in what they'd do as much as possible, rather than one just springing it on the other like that... At least he ought to take it slowly, not just one fell smackeroo...
On another note, I wonder if someone will interrupt them again...
Typing note: it's usually spelled "goatee"

GreenLemon, August 2nd, 2011, 10:27 pm

I hope for a 'OOOH! moment, and not an 'Ouch!' moment (from a bee). I'll believe in their 'real' kiss when I see it. Deda has been too sneaky so far.

I say 'real' since Callista doesn't have a clear memory of the first one.

Kirstie (Guest), August 2nd, 2011, 10:34 pm

[Insert uncontrollable giggling here.]

66scarylion44, August 2nd, 2011, 11:20 pm

I agvee with Fopek. KIFF HEV! KIFF HEV NOW!

Jaglep, August 3rd, 2011, 12:04 am

Go on and kiss the girl D8
do it now, and I hope for no one is goingto pop up between and spoil it >_>

xXnerd101Xx, August 3rd, 2011, 1:01 am

C'mon!!! Do it before someone interupts! Or before a bee stings you!!! all you gotta do is lean in!!!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 6:13 am

@everyone I keep worrying what might happen if Cat just takes Callista unawares all of a sudden like that... I mean, she's welcomed his attempts thus far, but for all I know, it could be different now, she's showing no sign of catching on to any thought that he might want to kiss her--I hope she'll soon be aware enough and in agreement, since she was scared of a certain smooch-happy someone else doing it without permission before... unwelcomed gestures, even innocent touches and kisses, feel worse than any interruption to me, since oftentimes the way a person approaches a kiss would signal the way he approaches everything else... (and hey, it's not as though there's a time limit...)

Bibi (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 7:19 am

at the cost of sounding boring and redundant: she is dying to be kissed and has sent plenty of signals!

The times are mature! Kiss!

Bibi (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 7:20 am

at the cost of sounding boring and redundant: she is dying to be kissed and has sent plenty of signals!

The times are mature! Kiss!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 7:24 am

@Bibi Yes, over the long run she has wanted him to, but what about at this particular moment? She's just wondering whether she has honey on her face right now, is she going to catch on that he probably thinks this might be a good time for a kiss, and does it seem like a good time to her now? I'd like to know that first before it goes anywhere... Even when you've wanted a kiss from someone for a long time, you might still decide that right now, the time is not right or you're not ready (that's why I've lately gotten into the idea of asking)...
I don't know if the idea that some people still think that a person consents to everything along with consenting to a kiss or a wedding vow or any one thing is relevant, but I thought I'd bring that up too... not suggesting that Cat would necessarily do that, but he is quite the hungry ghost...

Bibi (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 7:49 am

She is totally comfortable, she is very close to him and touched his face!
Touching is symptomatic of feeling plenty comfortable. It's very intimate.
She is also letting him touch her face.

When she is not uncomfortable she runs away and shouts AAAAAH!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 8:13 am

@Bibi I guess I'm still wondering whether she's comfortable around him because she thinks he's still a relatively "safe" guy, or whether she has an idea of what he wants to give her and wants it too... I don't think I'd like to see him breach her trust, I keep thinking that there is a chance he might still scare her off...
A fantasy idea that some might find hard to separate from reality is that if a fella kisses a girl well enough, even at a moment when she's inclined to resist him, she would melt and gladly give him everything he could want from her--the idea that a moment can *always* be right is not the right thing to think about...

Bibi (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 8:18 am

She kissed him and is pretty happy knowing that he is well endowed.

I think "safe" - like a brother - is out of the picture!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 8:50 am

@Bibi She wasn't fully aware when kissing him (having had a lot of grappa-fennel soup then) and was once again afraid of Josh getting to her first, and she has never felt anything sizeable inside her, she'd probably only know by hearsay that a well-endowed male is automatically good lover material, so how could she know whether she'd really like it once she felt it? Only 20% of the world's women automatically paroxysm just by feeling something inside them, the rest need help from their own tiny friends or have never felt anything, is this family (sans Lio, the motion of the ocean is enough for her and Foxy) supposed to be among the lucky few? For all I know, she might be building up a big expectation, and be disappointed if she feels nothing or it hurts...

Sorry if I keep playing Devil's Advocate, there are so many things I have a hard time imagining now, like the appeal of the mega-phallus and how anyone can be comfortable with receiving some gesture all the time... They were a given in a completely male-centered world, no questions asked, but this world now needs understanding of what really would turn everyone on...

dedasaur, August 3rd, 2011, 8:58 am

You're just assuming. :D

You should stop and enjoy the ride instead.

elianthos, August 3rd, 2011, 8:59 am

Aren't you rushing things too much in your Werepenis scenario though? Kissing is different than going all the way. And at the moment there are no sign of them going beyond kissing - provided they manage to kiss at all - RIGHT NOW. Relax.
--
I'll be without internet connection for a while. May those guys be merry and loving in the meantime, the pirate way :D. *waves around and bows to Deda* see you :*

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 9:01 am

@Deda If I'm assuming, then I'd like to hear an explanation about why it would be different, if it won't reveal too much... Sorry if I sound demanding, I'm just feeling really confused...
@Elia: I did add before one of my fears that many would believe that consent to a kiss means consent to everything else, that many men won't stop with just a kiss, that one thing can lead to another (like a mom warning her daughter that she could get pregnant if she french kissed a fella on the beach, leaving to the imagination anything that might happen in between, if she imagines anything between the kiss and the conception)--it might not necessarily happen all over, of course, but it was a general warning to put out there, and many believed it, and kept it up whether they wanted to or not, because they didn't think it was possible to do it any other way...

Cat is definitely dreaming of more than just a kiss, and I'm not entirely sure whether Callista fully knows what's what, even though she seems aware of a little (the way she reacted to the corn demo)... Will Cat want it all at once, and will Callista completely and knowingly want to take and give it all, however much he wants at a time?

dedasaur, August 3rd, 2011, 9:10 am

I am not answering any questions, dear, that would be pretty useless.

Sometimes even when I write it up there, black on white, it's the readers' choice wheatear they want to believe me or stick to their own believes (like for the "he didn't get any").

Even though I'm the author I am still questioned on the content (not on the choice). It's pretty unsettling.

I specified that any idiot can dream and this girl is no idiot and that conversation, there, was enough to explain what level of consciousness she has about this relationship.

Just read and make the most of it. :D
You'll be happier.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 10:03 am

@Deda About that, I keep feeling sure it's not necessarily completely the way the characters perceive it, and it could turn out differently and feel differently...
For instance, I think Kane might have liked what he did do with Castalia, even without doing what he considered "getting any", but maybe with the stressful time, and the thought that two of his blood brothers are getting more than he can hope for at this point, he lost sight of that...
Likewise, what Cat and Callista do might be different than what they picture--they both like the soft stuff, but it could be different when they get to the hardest part, she may like the idea of it, but the experience could be different--and I hope that they don't rush into all of it at once... I hope that the soft stuff and the hard part comes at a time when it's wanted on both sides, and that any disappointments aren't too deeply scarring, and for this moment, I hope I soon find out whether she will welcome the kiss here and now, and that's all I have to say about that...

Isolde (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 10:15 am

The first that popped into my head when I saw this was the little mermaid song: shalalalala go on and kiss the girl~ woooo!
They are just so sweet.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 10:25 am

@Isolde I wrote some comments about that song on the page when the Shallalahs first appeared, about how people claim it implies one must presume silent agreement on a kiss, when it might not necessarily be true in a different context than the stories (both the one the song was set in, and this one) showed, that while in this context the girl does want a kiss and doesn't have to say so because she somehow shows she would like it, there may be other times when the girl may not want it but look like she does to the boy, so I usually think it's best to clarify... I won't say any more on this, but a lot of people want to bring it up when it might work for this scenario but doesn't work for every scenario...

mooshu_n_taipei (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 10:51 am

(>X<)ahhh, kiss her!! >=( No one better interupts their moment either.

Isolde (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 11:26 am

@SCL LOL you're too deep for me babe, plus the fact it's 12.30 am and my brain's fuzzy. I think in future you would need a guy like Martin who if my interpretation is correct is the sort of fella who would tell you stuff straight up. Or I might be wrong. About my interpretation that is. Pardon me haha!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 12:19 pm

@Isolde I thought I was telling it like it is, but I guess it didn't sound clear, or maybe I muddled it up trying to keep it clean or sensitive... maybe it will make more sense in the morning, but I'll add onto that to make more sense of it, and perhaps what I was trying to say to everyone else...

About the song:
I read in a lot of blogs and such that some people worry that there are so many claims in the Disney story that the song came from about romantic interactions that would be transposed to real life, e.g. men don't want women to talk, but rather use, to borrow from Ursula, body language...
I believe some form of clear communication is important in finding out what each person wants, and if one can't read body language right, if one thinks it means something different than what it actually is, then spoken intentions and consent might be needed to clarify the meaning and the wishes...
If, like Ariel, one partner is missing a voice or, like Eric, is too shy to say what s/he wants, then both would have to agree on a way to communicate and clarify agreement on that wish, such as special gestures until any issues that are in their power to resolve can be fixed...

About this scene:
From what I gather, people seem to believe that Callista would want a kiss if it came along right now, since she's been so comfortable with Cat throughout, as she shows with the touches, and she knows a good bit of what's what by observation, and that the drunken kiss was real and welcomed, and she knows that Cat is very interested in her, and she'd like to let him share that with her while awake, and to return that interest...
However, in real life, not everyone can be that comfortable all the time, and comfortable with everything others, even people close to them, want from them; therefore, especially in a romantic situation, a person shouldn't assume that another person is comfortable with something at a particular moment, unless this other person honestly says so and/or there is a recognizable consistent signal (spoken and/or unspoken) showing how comfortable or uncomfortable the person is with the situation; it could change at any time, however close in general you are to somebody...
There might be a time when you won't want someone, even the lover you always dreamed of, to kiss you, let alone subsequently do anything else if s/he's interested in that, and I would like to see at least one lover understand and respect that wish even before attempting whatever s/he wants to do, to prevent any awkward, frightening or even traumatizing misunderstandings...
I was arguing in favor of a sign from Callista that she would be comfortable with Cat kissing her at this particular moment, rather than just general comfort with him and interest in him, which people seem to claim is reason enough for him to go forward with it...
I hope I'll see comfort in the moment on the next page if that kiss is meant to happen; only then will I egg them on with everyone else...

About your suggestion for what kind of guy I might need:
I'm feeling pretty sure I wouldn't want a fella exactly like Martin...
He comes across to me as one who only sees things in black and white, and I'd prefer a lot of room for the gray areas, or more colorful and creative ways of doing things (For instance, going beyond the myth of the "perfect victim" and various dichotomies)...
Sure, it would be nice if there was a way to organize and clarify what I could say, but not if it must be shunted into something fully right or fully wrong, and I don't want to take the chance that he might misunderstand me, and even think I'm saying the complete opposite of what I really mean and won't give me enough of a chance to complete/correct it...
I never want to take the chance on resolving something before the person I'm talking to knows all the facts and my whole point of view, and I might forget to include a detail which might be important, so I won't want anyone I debate with, including a lover, to just leave an issue at that without the detail before trying to arrange it into something comprehensible...
I know you meant well, Isolde, but I think the best sort of guy for me is one who'd take plenty of time and effort to try to understand what I'm saying and learn everything I believe about something, then arrange it more clearly if need be, before giving a suggestion or view of his own, and will especially be patient with me when I cry about being unable argue my point with him, that his view is beating me down...

Sopek, August 3rd, 2011, 2:56 pm

@SCL: The author of this comic told you to sit back and enjoy the ride. Why don't you try that? As for the kissing, It Callista didn't want to be kissed, she could turn away or sock him in the face. And being asked if its alright by the man about to kiss you kind of ruins the mood. Callista has TOLD Cat to kiss her. Her "You better be the first to kiss me." And she herself calls herself Cat's special girl. A kiss can be just a kiss you know, If it took them this long to work up to an appropriate moment (not interrupted by Foxy!) Than it'll take quite awhile to go all the way. In other words, RELAX. This is a work of fiction. Enjoy it!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 3:48 pm

@Sopek Like I was saying to Isolde, I decided I'll wait and see how Callista responds to an attempt, and I'll join in the cheers if Callista shows that she fully welcomes the kiss here and now on the next page (the panel which showed her likely to share in the kiss or welcome it in chapter 9 and 10 was right on the same page as when it seemed the moment was right, but now I'm kept in suspense about whether she'd want it or not)--right now, I'll stay indifferent...

I also think the rate where they could get to square one and the rates to the squares after that could possibly vary... I know Cat's very hungry for that, but I don't really know how his hunger could affect the rate, maybe he can restrain himself again, maybe he won't want to, who knows?

As for what you said about asking for a kiss--before, not in the process of it--ruining the mood... well, I recently saw a program which shows evidence to the contrary, that plenty of girls like it when fellas ask, since it shows honesty and caring (maybe not all girls, some might prefer their fellas act bold or boorish--to a point at least, but quite a few girls in the audience reacted positively when the scenario of a shy guy asking was played on the stage show)...
Touching somebody, whether to request a kiss or just touching, can be interpreted in totally different ways by different people (if someone laid a hand on someone's leg, perhaps to show s/he wouldn't mind a kiss right now, would the person being touched more likely think "that's so sweet" or "whoa papa, s/he totally wants me"?), and a guy trying to sound real smooth about it can often sound corny and/or unnerving, but asking honestly, politely and perhaps shyly could sound very sweet (like I said, many ladies in the audience of a video of one of these liked it)...
Also, if she says no politely, the fella can assure her that he's glad he asked, because the last thing in the world he'd want is to make her uncomfortable (quite a few people in the audience found that very touching, and quite a few fellas found that smoother than any corny line they could think of, but of course, I'm not speaking of everyone, there could be plenty of folks who disagree)...
Best of all, if a fella asked before kissing, his partner wouldn't have to turn away or sock him if she didn't want to be kissed (I personally wouldn't want to have to resort to that if I can help it), and she wouldn't be scared of him trying anything else--she could even ask him (it was said Cat wouldn't like it if Callista were pushy, but maybe her asking wouldn't seem that pushy, probably even compared to her declarations)...
And often "just a kiss" can define how one will act hereafter... I'd wonder if a partner could ask for something else he wanted if he didn't ask from the start... Consent for one thing doesn't guarantee consent for another, like I said, and no one consent is guaranteed for a lifetime (at least that's the way we hope it is today, it could have been that way in past eras)... It might not be a problem in the story, but it is one in real life...
All I wanted to say was that asking is not necessarily a mood-killer, it could be a turn-on, even a breath of fresh air, depending on who you ask...
If you want to hear more about this program, I could tell more and share a link...
P.S. I don't know how a fella would react if the girl told him "OMG you are such a dork, that's not how it's supposed to go," this might be something to ask the creator if I ever see the live program...

There could be other things to worry about in this, like what you'd do if you didn't like the kiss, like if it was too sloppy or too rough or something else, but I won't push it...

Dracula, August 3rd, 2011, 4:28 pm

OH MY GOD SO CUTE UGH klerbgkbwrgjkbajwrga

Stormlight (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 6:39 pm

First off: Daaawww! Sugar overload! Kiss her kiss her kiss her!

Deda: You're doing a fabulous job with this comic. Don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise.

SCL: Do you even REALIZE how neurotic you sound? I believe Deda is trying to tell you - as POLITELY as possible - to sit back, shut up, and let her tell her story HER way.

Why don't you try listening to her for a change? I've never seen such blatant rudeness from any other reader in these comments. It seriously amazes me how you don't seem to get just how rude you're being.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 7:11 pm

@Stormlight I never said that Deda was doing a terrible job. I never meant to sound like I was changing the story or nagging. I say that again and again, but nobody seems to believe that... I don't know how I can explain why I do this... maybe it's just that I'm gaining a critical eye, maybe too much of one... I thought I was respectfully sharing opinions and observations... I feel very worried if people can't seem to look at stories from different perspectives, and I don't know if I can just blindly enjoy things the way I used to... Please understand that I don't mean to be rude, that I just want to share what I know and believe about certain situations... Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy this story and I want to see what happens and understand it, but my way of understanding has to dive in very deep, and show some alternatives, that real life might not necessarily be like it is in stories... If you know of more polite ways to phrase these things so I can share my views and yet still let people enjoy the ride, please feel free to make suggestions...

FarStar (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 7:15 pm

I don't think SCL is exactly... rude. They are voicing their opinion. They are not saying Deda to "WRITE THIS OR WRITE THAT". They have rights to voice their worries, I think it's cool she thinks so much about them, so much about them as people.
And sometimes I can see their point, sometimes I don't. This is one of those times I cannot, though. I mean, who says they are going to kiss and let's remember this is not real life... Just cause girl might not want it in real life at some point (although, she has expressed it many times she likes him, she's his girl, etc. (and she follows in Lio's footsteps, sorta, she might even worry that he doesn't like her so much and that's why doesn't kiss her), doesn't mean she won't want, when she is a comic character. Not to mention, Callista isn't as shy and stuff anymore AND in modern days, a girl like her would probably grab and kiss him her self, also when conscious. Kissing isn 't sex, too, that it is something unfixable, something that must be regretted so much.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 7:35 pm

@FarStar I was just saying that although Callista was showing that she was comfortable in general with Cat, I did not yet see any signs that she would welcome a kiss at this particular moment...
All she is doing in response to him cupping her face is looking at him questioningly and innocently asking if she has honey on her face (like she had wiped off his before, which shows it likes him, and might or might not be a way of flirting and requesting a kiss).
She has stated many times that she would like him to give her her first proper kiss, but she is not bringing up the subject at this moment, or acting like she even suspects it, at least as I observe it (unless what she is doing now is just a clever strategy), so it could easily go one way or the other...
If it does end up in a kiss (as many readers hope it will), I hope that on the next page, I see that she does somehow have an expression showing she would like that to happen...

As for the "kissing isn't sex" part, kissing can be used in sexual and nonsexual ways, and there might be times and cultures which might make it easy for some people to mistake the two, for instance assume that consent to kisses or other relatively harmless actions might preclude consent to more sexual practices...
I concede it's not necessarily true all over, but it depends on how people perceive it...

dedasaur, August 3rd, 2011, 8:04 pm

@SCL: You said: "I keep feeling sure it's not necessarily completely the way the characters perceive it, and it could turn out differently and feel differently..."

Then you are not accepting them for who they are... you want to read them your own way. It's called wishful thinking, most readers go through that :) (that's how doujinshi yaoi are born too, even when the comic is not ambiguous at all).

think about it you have been making the same comments on all of them as if they were not different people, as if these love stories were not completely different from one another. You are bulking them all and casting over it the same light, one perspective, one theme. You don't see them as their own people, you see them as a projection of yourself.

Here I am trying to describe 6 different ways to achieve love. Why do I receive the same comment over and over? Every time I feel as if the World goes from round to flat again.

You see characters write their own stories and these characters are expressing themselves clearly and directly. But if you cannot even accept what they say I cannot answer nor discuss this with you, your wall is too tall.

I am going to tell you this from both a man and a woman perspective: blue balls work both ways (and the Big Bang Theory expressed this concept clearly in one of the latest episodes - there is such thing as too much foreplay XDDD).

Currently both Kane and Callista have blue balls. You can't change that, they stated so themselves.

FarStar (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 8:25 pm

Well, my thinking was that... He is not the guy who will swoop down and kiss, it will be the romantic leaning thing, sooo... She will have time to turn away, okay, it will be awkward, but no harm done.
And apparently, she quite wanted it, too.
What I meant is, kissing isn't sex, as in virginity won't be lost. And I don't think that if she likes him, they have kissed, they know they like each other, it could summon "OMG You totally hut and din't understand me response". They even agreed to kiss again. And i think she read the mood rather well, from the beginning of the evening, that it could lead to this. I mean, if not honey, then sunrise watching they planned...

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 3rd, 2011, 8:52 pm

@Deda I'm sorry, I didn't necessarily intend to change them or lump them together... In my view, the era, which carries over still, held a standard of one kind of love...
It may appear in different ways for the different couples, but there is a common thread through them all: it all starts in the relatively young years and it ends up the same, with marriage or something close to it, and with children if possible and as much as possible, and with a fella in charge by tradition, and there are stereotypically similar drives and views behind them, and the worldview affects how they approach them, and what they should desire, and it's more about what's not said (but is somehow shown, which I found hard to imagine, since not all people are as effusive, as easy to read, or as good at interpreting expressions as they apparently are) than what is said--which might be why I discounted the text...
All of them somehow followed that pattern, even for what may seem some innovations in their time there (e.g. Kane teaches Castalia to read and fight because he has to, Martin believes the girls are in durance vile when they gladly do the work, Cat rescues, befriends and supports, Foxy finds real love in something physical and sympathetic, Wes engages in a chase to prove his worth to Cassandra who keeps him at bay by claiming she couldn't care less, all go for very traditional stuff), which must have been all I really noticed, and these couples are really closely knit with one another, both which might be reasons why I lumped them together...

In comparing my views on love to theirs, pointing out things I'd personally see in mine that I don't see in theirs, I suppose it's not really wondering "Why can't theirs be the same as I'd like it?", it's wondering "Does mine (and any OC of mine's) have to be the same as theirs, and is there something wrong with me if it's not, or if I think theirs wouldn't work for me, even to the point of going completely wrong? What has to be alike and what has to be different? Could the differences differ from even any of theirs? Could I have a lover/husband who would be open to suggestions from me about making love and other things important to me, or must I concede everything to him? Could we make our game of courtship less of a keep-away or tug-of-war between sexes and more about honest teamwork? Could I still have value doing all the work I can to survive, not just certain categories of work, even after I marry someone who's supposed to take care of the rest for me? Could we both do chores that only one in the family is expected to do (I could sow and harvest, he could cook and care for the kids, we could both do them all together)? If I have kids, could I have someone, even several people, to make up for the mommy heart I don't feel I have?"
On our discussions, you had pointed out the way typical country women of the era would feel, believe, and live, and I was wondering how different from that my character could really get away with being, whether there was any quirk that she could find encouraged on the ship which she wouldn't be able to have otherwise, whether what she'd learn would be even more valuable to her daily work when she returns to it rather than detract from it...

There are many parts to the characters' loves and their personalities that I do identify with; maybe that's why I had all this wishful thinking and projecting, to see if there are more ways I could identify with them, to whether I could take any good parts for the love I (and my character) have and leave the rest...
I also identify some actions and views which, when taken to extremes, could be very harmful, and I could wonder whether I and my character could avoid them...

As for the male and female blues (ovaries? clit?) I'm mainly wondering how far these people would go to ease them, and whether it has to be relieved with a partner to be considered satisfactory for the man, or it can be satisfied with the partner for the woman... (Was it really Callista you meant? I'm not sure I've noticed how she's expressed that...)
I also wonder if women's blues were really eased all that much (I read in an excerpt from a certain book by Rachel P. Maines that a midwife could ease a single or pregnant woman's "hysteria" from lack of orgasm by rubbing the exterior, but a married woman had to have her husband satisfy it with his little friend, and I'm never sure if that was really effective for all women, since I keep reading that most don't come from that alone, that's why I'm wondering why so many women--and Pifo--in the story, e.g. Callista and the aunties, seem to think a sizable member is the key to satisfaction... How does regular PIV coitus satisfy? Is it in contact with what erogeneous zone is inside from girth, or is it the way the man angles himself which either hits that zone or rubs the exterior?) and whether the lady in question would get the hysteria eased, and whether most women were really allowed to care that much about it (I still hold the view it was all about easing the men's "testyria" in those days, and it was assumed the women were satisfied when they went along with it)...
It's another thing that I'd wonder about for my character and I, if she'd really be ridiculed or considered less mature/not woman enough/no longer pure for thinking that a man's member would not send her into paroxysms and for playing with her tiny friend, and/or whether she could hope to find someone who shares her love for it...

Anyway, I'm sorry if I got carried away, consider any wishful thinking something I'd like my own love that hasn't happened yet (in stories or for real) to be, not the way I'd like theirs to be, they are beautiful even with their flaws...

dedasaur, August 3rd, 2011, 11:19 pm

What you described in your comments, for over a year, now, always sounded idyllic and ideal BUT stereotypical to me. Things you don't find in life, no matter how unfair this is.

Things are not black or white. They are not gray either. We all have our colors.

Your lumping the couples together and summarizing their actions in on line is proof enough that you don't want to see a progression. (But progression is what I want to talk about.)
You want it all and you want it now, then... there's no need to tell a story where the world is already white! Where it the growth?

Imagine that: this is the story of a boy who loves a girl and boy asks the girl, can I kiss you? She says yes, they end up together.

Interesting? Not in the least. Where is the conflict? Conflict is the key to good storytelling.

Stories are made of 3 things: a dude with a dilemma and how he deals with it. 3 D's.

What I want to talk about is actual life. Life has flaws and characters that are well rounded are not perfect, they are faulty and are continuously humiliated by their flaws. That's fun.

That's why if you give me a book about chivalrous love where they are happy from the beginning to the very end and a chuck palahniuk book with a character whose mind is messed up... I'll go for the second one.

I have no interest on "how it should be" and "things should be fair", it's most unrealistic and is also very plain. Life is not made of that.

That's also called "flat writing". I don't want to go there (I am not even sure I am able to do that), it's amateurish and populated by stereotypical imagery, there is no progression and no arc: the hero is born perfect and becomes nothing more that what he was at the beginning... while the human mind is celebrated for its ability to learn. A learning curve is most appealing and learning happens with tryouts and mistakes.

I like to talk about things as they are or were. It's fun to nit pick on defects... celebrating perfection is for religion.

You misunderstood most of the characters in fear of something... you cannot project your fear on things for ever, it will dominate your life and then you won't find white, you won't find gray and you won't find your color... you will only find black.

p.s. TV programs are fake and scripted to appeal to a certain audience. Reality shows are the most scripted of them all - I worked to many years on that stuff not to know. That's why I don't watch TV anymore.

Bibi (Guest), August 4th, 2011, 2:03 am

"Kane teaches Castalia to read and fight because he has to, Martin believes the girls are in durance vile when they gladly do the work, Cat rescues, befriends and supports, Foxy finds real love in something physical and sympathetic, Wes engages in a chase to prove his worth to Cassandra who keeps him at bay by claiming she couldn't care less, all go for very traditional stuff"

----------

we are reading a different story here.

Kane teaches Castalia because he wants a woman to think! That's outside any parameter to me. He said he is patience because he has no choice but frankly ignorant or not Castalia kicks ass already. He knows that.

Martin misunderstood Pea - but think ladies should not be held captive (is he wrong?) - but is Pea gladly doing her work? (it seems to me she has been trying to escape work, like Cassandra, since the very beginning and is not particularly happy about working if not for the fact she receives a paycheck).

Cat rescues, befriends and support? But who is really giving shoes to whom here? Definitely a work in progress here.

Foxy is only NOW moving from a crush to a relationship and learning it. Definitely a work in progress here.

Wes is trying to get rid of the past and conquer his future. He's gone from not taking anything for granted to cherish what he has and Cassandra asked for patience and is getting patience. The future is the key.

Stories are evolving from cliches to anti-cliches constantly. Building up towards cliches and then being completely broken to pieces when the peak of certain events is reached.

There is evolution, there is work in progress, are you missing all the nuances? IF the answer is no, why are you comments from day 1 to day 400, after more than 600 pages, still the same?

Black Coffee (Guest), August 4th, 2011, 5:10 am

SCL. A lot of what you call deeper understanding is based on hearsay and I wonder how much of that is real and how much is merely based on fiction.

I think this story is giving a good perspective on life itself and how people are.

Just so you know, there is such thing as too much foreplay and if you go numb it hurts and you go dry no matter how hard the partner tries to stimulate you and what you hearsay about women always needing to be stimulated and stuff it's part of a myth too. I can do without plenty of times.

And by the way: size does matter and how!

Stormlight (Guest), August 4th, 2011, 5:46 am

SCL: You keep saying "you never meant to", but I can't help feeling you don't really mean that. If you truly don't mean to offend, then why do you insist on parroting the exact same spiel over and over and over and over, no matter HOW many times the other people tell you to stop, sit back, and just enjoy the story. You. Don't. Get. It.

What Deda said is EXACTLY right. You keep projecting yourself - your own ungrounded fears and (in my opinion) completely unrealistic expectations of what relationships SHOULD be - on to her characters. That isn't fair to Deda. This story is about HER ideas, not YOURS, but you seem to constantly keep trying to make it all about you.

Voicing opinions is one thing, but it stops being a discussion when you plug your ears and refuse to listen to anything anyone else has to say, and when you KEEP voicing those exact same opinions over and over, no matter HOW many times you're told to chill out about it. No offense, but I come here to read about Pirate Balthasar and company, and to discuss what's going on in THEIR love lives. I have no interest in hearing anything about yours.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 4th, 2011, 6:29 am

@Deda, Stormlight and others In the very least, I don't mean to upset you about all this... maybe I really do impose, but I somehow never really think of it as a problem if you intend to continue the story as it is in spite of that... I don't know if I mean to direct it to the characters or not... I guess I want to voice my concerns at whatever opportunity I could to find out what I'd do when faced with something on par with it, and whether it would be acceptable... I understand things take time to, if not make perfect, as near to it as they can get; I have noticed some good changes, but somehow I notice more how far they have yet to go... I mainly fear too much imperfection, so much that it's dangerous, but perhaps I could fear too much perfection too, if it could also be dangerous... how far could one go in either direction before it becomes dangerous?

I'd admit that love interest ideas for my character, if I make one, seem flat, at least partly because of how I could imagine some ways they could grow and change...
I envision a character of mine who knows two fellas, one who desires her and equates that with wanting to own her and break/tame her, and sees the way she could be with enough of it--I don't see any change going anywhere with him, because it's too terrifying to imagine holding out for change from him, I don't know if he could see a different view from that of mastery, or how he could gradually change from that--and another who is caring and helps her out a lot, and admires her the way she is but doesn't know how to seem like the type she'd want to make love with, and how to show those intentions without scaring her--he's the one that I'd make seem too perfect, I'd wonder how I could make him less so...

I know mostly of myths, and of the very worst things to expect, and how it seems that the systems of courtship most often encouraged would allow a continuum of those behaviors... Fears of the way these forces could act upon my character would be her main flaw... One thing, probably the most realistic thing, I would like to expect for me and mine would be clear and open communication about what we want... I was mostly fearful that this was an era that wouldn't allow that, especially from the woman, the man usually called all the shots... My character wonders if she should follow a set of rules laid by the status quo, and would even see two views (one of holding purity and one of just going for it) and find it hard to choose, but also wonders if she could make her own rules too, do what she feels glad about...

dedasaur, August 4th, 2011, 6:41 am

Perfection should not be contemplated by men, it's ill thinking.

It is something that does not exist because humans metamorphose.
The moment you solve a problem another one arises.

The more you solve the more you get submerged by new problems to solve.

Life is a moto perpetuo.

Whatever your Streben is... it should never aim at fulfillment because it will never reach it, only in the path we walk we find true happiness.

You should read Pictor's metamorphosis, by Herman Hesse.
My idea of perfection is stated wonderfully there.

Interestingly enough Kane will talk about this on page 45 of this chapter.

I am currently on chapter 15 (almost at the end of it) :D managing to get ahead of myself for I shall be going to Italy in september for 2 weeks.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 4th, 2011, 6:55 am

@Deda The "love interest" characters in my mind were manifestations of my worst fears (meeting someone who only wants to control and hurt me) and fondest dreams (one who is glad to help me without asking in return, appreciating me the way I am, and caring about what I want)... I'd like to figure out how I could make them less archetype and more human... for a while I thought there was some conflict to it, but it was more internal than external...
I also wanted to add that "unrealistic expectations" seemed relative for me: if a girl couldn't hope for someone who would let her suggest things she'd like, what she'd hope for otherwise--a lover whose desires would somehow highly coincide with her own even without asking--would seem even more unrealistic... that's why I'm hoping communication would appear in her story, even though I wasn't sure whether that would be something encouraged then... Another flaw to my heroine could be that she doesn't deal with too much hardness and hopes that others would allow her to make things easy, though on the other hand, harder conflict is more exciting, I keep thinking that those are usually exaggerated... I would want my character to have one hard conflict (perhaps confronting the fella she feared) and most others relatively manageable and resolved before coming to blows (she doesn't want to resort to violence if she can help it, but will do what she needs to, that's why I was also fearful of the violent expressions here)...

And as for "Coffee's" size-does-matter statement, I keep feeling sure that there can be such a thing as too big and it would need a lot of relaxing to fit in the very least, and there might often be ways to work around things, and as for it not being needed, I keep assuming that it's only if you can do without getting as many orgasms as a male partner is supposed to from PIV and/or believe that hers matter less than his, since there are supposed to be fewer nerves inside than outside...

dedasaur, August 4th, 2011, 7:13 am

Just write.

As for the second thingy... ehm... mechanics of an intercourse are not quite the way you think they are and human anatomy might surprise you - and lubricants are miracle workers.

See the thing is: there's a solution to big but there's no solution to small.

dedasaur, August 4th, 2011, 7:36 am

Let's end it here, thanks!

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 4th, 2011, 5:11 pm

@Deda Just let's agree to disagree on the last thing, though I'll admit you might have a point from personal observation, but of course, it might depend on the dimensions the person entering would rather enter and how the one being entered feels about that... maybe it's different sources that give us different perspectives about about the size extreme that more partners would complain about, and there might be solutions for any problem... if there really are no solutions, it would be up to the couple to decide whether or not that's a deal-breaker...

Bibi (Guest), August 4th, 2011, 7:12 pm

Girl, you need to experience it for yourself. You think it's either one or the either but it's always both, always. That's how human anatomy is designed to match.
Your last statement - the one the website deleted (THANK GOD!) only shows how inexperienced you are and let me tell you sex can only be empirically described - theory is b.s.

And as personal request can we please drop the topic once and for all and for ever and ever? this has been going on for way too long already and it's becoming a Chinese torture: it's a constant stillicide. Day in and day out.

It's simply inappropriate. We're not your friends nor your confidant and we don't need to know so much about you. There's a time and place for everything and there's a limit to the human patience too.

All you talk about is sex and penis, you have been doing this for over a year, on a daily basis, on multiple websites (the blog was black listed!) and I surely hope you don't email Deda about this stuff too because I would totally jump off a window if I were her and that were to be the case.

You are stuck in a loop: comment on sex and/or women position (which is somehow an allegory for sex too though), when Deda answers patiently you ignore her and continue on, when she proves a point you switch to this story of yours - which never happens if not in your head - to sway attention away (but it's too late) and then suddenly you drop a bomb like describing in details how you touch yourself???

It's the second time you do it.
If Deda were never ever to come by here and comment I would totally understand her and from now on I am ignoring you too.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 5th, 2011, 5:54 am

@Bibi I don't email about it, I wouldn't know how, so feel relieved there...
I guess I talked about it here because at least a few people seemed comfortable and knowledgeable about it, but I understand that doesn't excuse how uncomfortable I made others--sometimes it's easier to talk to strangers you never see than to people you know somewhat in person... there are plenty of people in my life who wouldn't be comfortable talking about it, and I wouldn't know how some others feel about it, and those I can talk to I can't explain fully, or always see...
I keep feeling what's true for some people may not be true for everyone, and I can't know yet whether it would be the same for me... I think I repeat myself because I want people to remember that... I understand that it might seem patronizing...
The story stays in my head because it's supposed to be a fanfic, but elements of it may be too far removed from the time, and I don't know how I can fit it in there...
I don't know if I can make any promises, but since many arcs have reached the height of action, I might lay it to rest at last... I've had enough of making people angry at me, and I'll make more of an effort...

LostPens, August 5th, 2011, 7:02 pm

@SecretComicLover
I've been Reading this comic for about a month now and I read from the beginning to the disease part of the story in about 2 nights. I must say...your comments are EXTREMELY amusing to me. I find the way your mind works (from what I skim over in your comments, because I have no idea how long it takes you to write them put) most intriguing. From what I see often, you make people irritated and they often argue with you. Why? I'm honestly curious, why do you continue to leave comments when a years worth of history is against you?

Nameless (Guest), August 5th, 2011, 8:40 pm

Talking to strangers is one thing, talking to the whole word is another thing.

Also if you feel this to be true: I keep feeling what's true for some people may not be true for everyone, and I can't know yet whether it would be the same for me why do you keep asking? It's a paradox!

You'll never be satisfied with any answer, you'll never find an answer because they are not the ones you want.

Go find your own truth by yourself!

You ask to people they tell you their truth and you tell them that's no true, how can you even judget that or tell them most people don't think like you? When that is what they've experienced and feel about it?


Clearly you'll get what the author here has experienced. If people did not live through the same experiences and have another take it's simply because they are different, but that's their problem and the author is still coherent.

dedasaur, August 5th, 2011, 9:47 pm

Hello guys, I asked kindly to end it here so, please, let's end it here and let's not transform this in a case of cyber bullism.

I have taken an important decision today, just like when I put filters on blogger.

So this is how it goes: I am all for freedom of speech and I will always protect your right to express yourselves.

But ever since the code of hammurabi there is one thing that has been clearly established and turned societies into civilized ones: one individual's freedom ends where another individual's freedom begins.

we are going to do it the pirate way, since pirates were the most democratic society in history - or almost...

I am the captain of this ship, if you don't agree you send me jump jump and pick another captain. (you let me know so I can give that person control over moderating this website).

So if I deem that an excess of freedom (because, yes, there is such thing - too much freedom brings to no freedom at all and people start eating each other alive like cannibals... ) is putting at stake the health of the crew I will make the following decision: messages will be cancelled.

If there's one thing my comic talks about is that a pirate ship sails in harmony because everybody agrees on the well-being of its crew-members.
The ones who don't agree are sent jump jump.

I am not at all for ban, so I will sink your messages instead.

So we follow the pirate code: no gambling, spamming and shit like that, no fighting over women, men or whatever, no drinking, no bothering of other crew-members against their own will.

Sex is not the main topic of this comic (this is not porn, no yaoi, no hentai). This comic is a Romance so sex is a rite of passage and component to love and that's how I see it.

Stereotypes and clich├ęs are not there as they are, they are there and are built up only to be destroyed. It's a comedy/parody take on love.
But it takes time and patience.

I have a lot of patience and I ask you to be patience and have faith in me too.
Lack of patience and trust will bring this ship apart.
But before that happens, trust me, I will maroon you.

LostPens, August 5th, 2011, 10:42 pm

@Deda as you say captain! And I truly mean that.

dedasaur, August 5th, 2011, 10:48 pm

You're a good pirate :D

Let's all enjoy the comic now.

SecretComicLover (Guest), August 7th, 2011, 6:27 pm

You need not fear full-on mutiny from me, Deda... I can't draw, so I'll let you tell the tale...
@LostPens: there are plenty of things I just find amusing that I can just be witty on, but there are some things that feel like serious issues for me, and I want to put that out there, and it often goes to what I hope and fear I might experience for myself... also I edit as I think of new things to say...
Also, I understand that like Nameless said, everyone has experienced things differently... I guess I wanted to put alternatives to their experience out there, and the way the story shows it, so that people could understand it's not that way for everyone... I guess it's often hard to tell what's not appropriate for everyone...

Added: I guess I want to reiterate what I thought people were trying to say, and what I wanted to say as a clarification:
that if you wanted someone to kiss you for a long time, and put out there that you'd be very glad if he did, then from now on, ANYtime is the right time for him to make good on that, no more questions asked, no more need to ask for further clarification on consent, is that right?

I, on the other hand, believe that the world can't always work that way, that long-run consent doesn't always work, it's important to see whether any act would be welcome at one particular moment here and now, at least when you're starting to get close, and when you're considering going from there to more intimate levels of closeness...
and some say that this is a mood-killer, while I say it could show how considerate one is as a lover...

Feel free to say whether you understand, or you can leave it there from now on, and go on enjoying it as we wish...

By the way, whatever the act, people seem to make a big deal about their "firsts", that's another common factor...

Black Legacy (Guest), June 3rd, 2012, 10:17 am

Good heavens.... and here all i was planning to say when i read this page is that "goatie" is actually written "goatee"...
I think this is the page with the most comments up to date 0.o

Ok, then first of all, i have to bow down to Deda for all her extremely wise, insightful, EXTREMELY POLITE and attempting-to-mediate comments when SOMEone is in fact picking apart her comic right in her face.
Since i reading this comic, my opinion is: Deda, i think you've just won the Patience World Cup.
Personally? I would have flipped shit at chapter 3-4 at most.
Also, speaking as someone who wants to design characters as a job, I REALLY look up to you. You have done an absolutely AMAZING job of conveying well-rounded, polifacetic, HUMAN characters. That's a big part of the appeal of your comic, and one of the reasons it's so well done.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Now....
@SCL: Mutiny??? You've done nothing BUT mutinize since you got on this ship! When reading comments, i just skip yours altogether, because reading them makes me MAD! You've been saying the same things over and over again since chapter one! And you have the gall to say you're simply "adding another perspective"??? Well, pardon me, but YOU'RE the one not allowing any perspective buy your own, you've been trying to box this story in your own little wishes and fears since chapter 1! please, go read another comic that fits your tastes better, and leave Deda and all the people enjoying this ALONE!!!

1xladedax1, January 23rd, 2015, 12:35 am

I've just read all of the comments of this page by you and SecretComicLover and I'll admit, you are the most realist person I have ever met!(well, based on your comments and replies.)

It fascinates me by how you think.

Or just think it this way: you're my favorite person now.

dedasaur, January 23rd, 2015, 4:58 am

@1xladedax1 thanks dear,
I don't know if it's a good thing to be a realist hahaha, it kinda just worked for me :)



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